Last week's soapbox on circumcision has become a little heated, so I'm going to devote another soapbox to acknowledge some of the comments.
First of all, I do think that circumcision is a huge deal, and it always surpirses me when people think otherwise. I mean, it's not like other parenting issues like whether you cloth diaper or not, whether you breastfeed or not, or whether you co-sleep or not (all of which I have an opinion on... but those are the types of issues that I would define as "not a huge deal".) Circumcision, however, is not that type of issue, in my book. Circumcision is just... wrong.
And, as one of the commenters replied, we cannot use the argument that (that the way circumcision is performed today) is a symbol of the eternal covenant among Jewish people because... "At that time it was a 'cutting of the blessing' - a very, very small slit made at the end of the penis to allow a few drops of blood to fall." That is a heck of a lot different with what is going on when circumcisions are performed today (go ahead, watch it, and tell me if that seems like "not a huge deal".) If Jewish people want to circumcise today, why not just do that small slit, like they used to? Wouldn't that be more in line with keeping with the ancient custom anyway?
And as far as all the comments being made from women who have not been circumcised... Any males want to step in here? Vernon? (That's my husband.)
First, let me just tell you about Vernon. When we were pregnant with our first child seven years ago, we both didn't really know much about circumcising or not circumcising. I started to do a little research and came up with the conclusion that I did not want to circumcise our child, and I told this to Vernon. At first, Vernon was like, "What the heck? Of course we're going to circumcise." Because, just like most people from the midwest, we came from a culture where we didn't know any different. Vernon had been circumcised. Everybody Vernon knew had been circumcised. But... once Vernon started to do a little research on it on the matter, he too agreed with the fact that he did not want to circumcise our children.
So, just because we grow up in this culture, just because we have these "norms"... this doesn't mean that we can't try to change things. I mean, up until 95 years ago, women didn't have the right to vote. Did that make it okay because it was the societal norm at that time? No.
Oh, and here is a good article from a man's point of view... with kind of an unexpected ending.
My point in writing these soapboxes is not to alienate people or to separate right from wrong... It is to educate. I want to inform people who, like Vernon and myself seven years ago, didn't know any different because we hadn't been exposed to other views yet. I want to challenge people's beliefs and encourage them to question things and to not do certain things just because everybody else is doing them (ultrasounds, avoiding fats, hospital births, etc.).
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13 comments:
Looks like the recent studies linking circumcision and AIDS prevention are, to say the least, a little dodgy:
http://www.davidwilton.com/files/potterattunexpectedrctsresults.pdf
Which is a pitty as people are dieing right now because of it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/circumcision-zulu-south-africa-hiv
It always blows my mind when parents do things (especially *permanent* things such as circumcision) just because "it's what everybody else does." And the argument that a boy might not look like his father or other guys in the locker room, as you mentioned in your last post about this, really gets to me. I feel like it's setting kids up to succumb to peer pressure from day 1. When these kids are teenagers, these parents have no right to get mad when the kids get tattoos or piercings, or other things that "all the other kids are doing." The kids are only operating the way they've been taught from the beginning...blindly, following the crowd.
The Joel Stein article made me sad, but I think it a good example of why circumcision is still so prevalent. People know deep down that its wrong, and maybe not even that deep down if they've done any ounce of research about it, but they still can't overcome their own hangups to change anything. Doesn't that go for so many awful things we do? Its just so sad, because this is really such a clear issue when you come right down to it, and yet, its such a battle!
I
Ok, I was like you seven years ago. My sister in law and I were both pregnant with boys at the same time and she was like "OH CRAP, its a boy, now what...to circ or not to circ." I was like "WTF? Theres a choice?" How incredibly in the dark are we...just like birth, we tend to be sheep not thinking for ourselves and then being victims in our own ignorance. SHAME SHAME its a SHAME! As for educating...you rock at educating...I know WAY more bc I know you! Stay atop the soapbox and PREACH!
Sarah J
"To know and not to do is not yet to know." - Zen wisdom
Keep preaching! Someday, if we keep talking about this, we will see thoughtfulness overtake the cliff-jumping lemmings in our world.
It can be tough to hear much education when it is so one-sided in this particular forum. One person presented a different view, and there were a lot of analogies to child abuse and a lot of statements like "It's just wrong, so there." The absolute certainty that you all profess is pretty condescending to those with a different opinion, and it hurts your case. You make it sound as though anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant fool. Sorry, that doesn't make me want to learn more about what you have to say.
And again, as a circumcised man, I ask, with no ill-will attached: Where is all my psychological damage? Where are my terrible consequences? And if I have no terrible consequences, isn't this more of a preference than a huge deal? I'd like to hear someone other than a woman convince me that my life has been damaged by my own circumcision.
i can't answer for the circumcised males but my mom had my ears pierced when i was 6 months old and i'm normal. now to go feed my eighteen cats and put a blender in the oven...
RJL asked where his psychological damage is; I'd say it lies in his willingness to perform (what he considers to be nothing more than) cosmetic surgery on his child's genitals.
I'd also add that he doesn't know what terrible damage he may have suffered physcially because he has never had his whole penis. People who have restored their genitals report amazing increases in sexual pleasure. . . so to say that there's been no damage is something RJL isn't capable of reporting, as he's never *not* been damaged.
RJL - I hope you're not getting too overwhelmed by all of the passionate responses from my readers. You are right... you've stepped into an obviously biased forum. I'm sorry I'm not able to present a more balanced platform. I'm going to see if I can talk Vernon into contributing... I think he'd have some things worth saying, coming from a circumcised adult male point of view himself.
I know I may have oversimplified it by just saying, "It's wrong," but I felt like I stated the reasons in my previous post, as well as them being substantiated by several of the comments made by others who seem much more intelligent in the subject than I (particularly the one from Peaceful Parenting in the first post).
Please don't get overwhelmed by the frankness and passion by everybody and call us all crazy, because I think you'll be missing some really good stuff in the heart of it all.
I guess I just don't know how to present this issue so it is not one-sided (which I guess is akin to my views on abortion as well). I don't know how to do it.
That being said, in all honesty, no, I don't think you are psychologically damaged by your circumcision. I don't think Vernon is psychologically damaged. I don't think most adult males who have been circumcised even think about the issue a whole heck of a lot.
But that doesn't make it a nice thing to do to babies. Like I said in my first post, we could slap the hell out of our little babies right now and they're probably not going to remember it when they're 34 and it's probably not going to affect them psychologically... but that doesn't mean that it's a nice thing to do. It's a big deal and I just don't like that so many people in this country consider it the norm, because it's not.
Allison, good last comment there, very thoughtful. Much better than saying something like I'm damaged but I don't realize it, as Anonymous did. Well, we could all say that about each other, couldn't we? Maybe you are all psychologically damaged to spend so much time on the penis? Maybe we're all psychologically damaged from wearing shoes? (Just kidding, just kidding).
As for me, I'm not overwhelmed, everyone has issues they feel passionately about (I'm probably just as appalled by abortion as you are, assuming you are opposed). But you make a good point by saying that most men don't think about this much, and you need to keep that in mind while presenting your case. And obviously we must all keep in mind that even if we think the evidence is clear, some will still disagree, and disagree respectfully.
For example, I think global warming (as usually presented) is bunk, but there are others who think it's the worst thing in the world. I can't convince them, I realize that. And I think they are misinformed. But I've found that I have much more influence with a reasonable tone than with a shrill one. And the reality is, there are other things in life more important to me than winning a debate. Like cheese. I love cheese. :)
That's all -- I look forward to various other topics on the blog.
Speaking of global warming, there is also a good section about that in Superfreakanomics as well (as the car seat section).
Waaaaay late posting here, but I am in the same boat as you. I'd never even thought about circumcision until I was about 25 weeks pregnant and I said to my husband, I guess since I have no opinion on circumcision, if it is a boy, it is up to you. Then after saying that, I started reading. By the end of the day I was bawling, big choking sobs and gasping for breath and HOW CAN ANYONE DO THAT TO THEIR CHILD????
What did it for my husband? The statistic that uncircumcised penises are 25% larger than circumcised when erect. (WHA!? My wiener could be 25% bigger! Travesty!) Yup.
Also, IF someday my little man decides he doesn't like his intact junk, he can go get it chopped off, his decision. He will also get, you know, PAIN MEDS. I am not a believer that babies can't feel it. I'm a believer that they can't tell us they feel it and as with most things, if you can't change it, you just get used to it. (Ever go camping when it is 100 degrees out? I have. You just get used to the temp, it is no big deal. But step foot on my front porch when it's 100 degrees out and you feel like dieing - because you KNOW you can change it and it is only 79 in the house.)
The end :)
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